Interview: Natsuo Kirino’s Fiction

Following the new collaboration between Granta and Gunzo magazine, editors John Freeman and Ryosuke Saegusa discussed Natsuo Kirino’s story ‘In Goats’ Eyes Is the Sky Blue?’ (Return to the story here.)

JF: Natsuo Kirino has published several collections of stories in Japan, but we haven’t seen them yet in English. Is this story similar to her previous work in any way, and how do her stories differ from her novels?

RS: Kirino’s main motif is the dark side of everyday life. In ‘In Goats’ Eyes Is the Sky Blue?’ the Administrative Camp 16 that Tanne, the main character, and his friends inhabit is normal for them, but far from what we know as ‘everyday life’. In all of Kirino’s work, death and violence always sit very close to life.

This work is much more allegorical than previous works of Kirino’s, which have realistic settings and use actual place names and times. Although it may remind readers of a certain country, Camp 16 is entirely fictional and could be anywhere; you might exist there, and so might I. It could be an abstraction of Tokyojima.

Some of Kirino’s short stories are linked to novels, while others are derived from them, but both her short stories and novels have thrilling twists, and portray everyday life and its dark side to their fullest extent. Ms Kirino has developed her work gradually, so I would say there are no differences between her short stories and novels.

The most striking virtue of Kirino’s work is the way she writes from different perspectives – you will find this story very exciting if you look at the characters’ viewpoints – it can be compared to Discipline and Punish by Foucault.

This story reminds me of Shirley Jackson’s ‘The Lottery,’ – of which Jackson said when asked – it’s just a story. Still, I couldn't help wondering here. Is there a historical event in this story, or is it simply imagined?

‘In Goats’ Eyes Is the Sky Blue?’ and ‘The Lottery’ may have something in common. In ‘The Lottery’, there was no explanation as to why the lottery was bought. Likewise, in this work of Kirino’s, she doesn’t explain why the Camp exists nor where it might be set. It is allegorical.

They both pay attention to details. The description of the device used in ‘The Lottery’ – the black box – is elaborate. Likewise, the portrayal of the Camp is highly specific, giving readers vivid impressions.

I personally think that a certain country or area is one of the motifs of the Camp in ‘In Goats’ Eyes Is the Sky Blue?’ I suppose Ms Kirino had done careful research on the settings, but I’d like to emphasise that those materials are only one of the sources of her creation. The Camp looks like a village in Asia, but the watchtower is rather derived from Western culture. She will have developed and reconstructed her imagination from different realities. So, if you ask what the story is about, Ms Kirino will also answer, ‘it’s just a story’.

And without explaining more, what do you make of the title?

I heard that between the two options in English, Ms Kirino chose ‘In Goats’ Eyes Is the Sky Blue?’, over ‘Do Goats See the Sky As Blue?’ avoiding the Philip K. Dick echo.

I expect there will be various interpretations for the title, and I think that perspective is important here, as ‘Eyes’ suggests. Watched by the Supervisors, Tanne climbs up the tower to see the clock inside. He then sees what the village is like for the first time in his life. This story ends with Tanne gazing at the view, knowing he will be shot at in any moment.

I find the obtainment and loss of these viewpoints are well described in the story. These dynamic changes in are exciting to read in general in Kirino’s work.

Return to Natsuo Kirino’s ‘In Goats’ Eyes is the Sky Blue?’.

Read also...Ryosuke Saegusa’s essay on the collaboration between Granta and Gunzo.